# The straw man (Logical Fallacies, Part 1) ![[images/Straw-Man-Logical-Fallacies-Part-1.webp]] **Creator:** Joel is Curious · **Published:** 2026-11-03 · **Length:** 1:57 (YouTube Short) · [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q) > Caption source: **YouTube auto-generated English captions (en-orig)**, fetched with yt-dlp (android_vr client) on the first try. No TubeAlfred credits were used. Timestamps are from the captions. The short is a vertical talking-head take on a deck in front of yellow autumn leaves (a gray "L / OO / KCL / OSER / JOELISCURIOUS" eye-chart hoodie), with dark text cards: "STRAW MAN: arguing against a version of someone's view they never said," a running "STRAW MEN DOWN: 1 / 2" counter, a three-point list ("We fill the gaps with worse," "The worse version is easier to beat," "Our side cheers"), a cartoon panel for the Fridays example, a "STEEL MAN: the strongest version. No one has seen a mammal give birth to a new species" card, a "Carl Rogers's rule, 1951" card and an "On the receiving end?" card. Burned-in captions throughout. Screenshots are one about every 20 s. ## Summary It opens on a two-line exchange: "Maybe the dog shouldn't sleep in the bed." "So, you hate the dog?" "Wait, what?" "That is a straw man. You argue against a version of someone's view that they never said because it's easier to beat." A person made of straw is easier to beat down. To understand somebody we summarize, and that's fine. "The trouble is in the gaps of the summary. We often fill them with a version that is worse than what they meant": sometimes from fear, sometimes because it lets us be right, sometimes because we don't actually understand it. The worst version is almost always easier to beat, and "the people around us in our social groups cheer us when we win. So we go for the easy win." The philosopher Martin Buber wrote that we can meet a person as a "you" or treat them as an "it"; "a straw man argues with the it." A work example: "Let's try working from home on Fridays." "Oh, so you want Fridays off? ... We can't run a company when everyone takes Fridays off." The straw man is beaten, and working from home on Fridays never got discussed. "Here's one for my comments. I've never seen a cat give birth to a dog. Let's make that argument as strong as we can. No one has ever seen a mammal give birth to a new species. That is true. And evolution and evolutionary scientists agree." Evolution says species come from older species "a very tiny little bit at a time": a population of cats has kittens, the kittens all have mutations, and the small changes add up over a very long time. To catch it in yourself, say the person's view back and ask if you got it right; if they say no, you haven't understood yet. Carl Rogers suggests doing this in your next argument: speak only after you've restated the other person's views and feelings to their satisfaction. When it's done to you, "don't defend the straw man. And don't throw the word straw man at them. Just say, 'That's not quite what I meant. What I meant was this. Does that sound fair?'" It closes on the dog: "That's not quite what I meant. I love the dog." ## Outline ### 0:00 "So, you hate the dog?" - [0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=0s) "Maybe the dog shouldn't sleep in the bed." - [0:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=1s) "So, you hate the dog?" - [0:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=4s) "That is a straw man. You argue against a version of someone's view that they never said because it's easier to beat." - [0:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=10s) "A person made of straw is easier to beat down." ![[images/Straw-Man-Logical-Fallacies-Part-1-t0003.webp]] ### 0:12 Why we fill the gaps with worse - [0:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=12s) "To understand somebody, we summarize, and that's fine. The trouble is in the gaps of the summary." - [0:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=17s) "We often fill them with a version that is worse than what they meant." - [0:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=21s) "Sometimes it's because we fear it. Sometimes it's because it lets us be right. Sometimes it's because we don't actually understand it." - [0:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=27s) "But the worst version is almost always easier to beat." - [0:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=30s) "And the people around us in our social groups cheer us when we win. So we go for the easy win." ![[images/Straw-Man-Logical-Fallacies-Part-1-t0023.webp]] ### 0:36 Buber: a "you" or an "it" - [0:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=36s) "The philosopher Martin Buber wrote that we can meet a person as a you or we can treat them as an it." - [0:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=41s) "A straw man argues with the it." ### 0:43 Fridays - [0:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=43s) "Here's an example at work. Let's try working from home on Fridays." - [0:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=46s) "Oh, so you want Fridays off? There's the straw man." - [0:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=49s) "We can't run a company when everyone takes Fridays off." - [0:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=52s) "And the straw man just got beat down. The concept of working at home on Fridays never even really got discussed." ![[images/Straw-Man-Logical-Fallacies-Part-1-t0043.webp]] ### 0:57 The cat and the dog, steel-manned - [0:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=57s) "Here's one for my comments. I've never seen a cat give birth to a dog." - [1:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=61s) "Let's make that argument as strong as we can." - [1:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=63s) "No one has ever seen a mammal give birth to a new species. That is true." - [1:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=69s) "And evolution and evolutionary scientists agree." - [1:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=72s) "Evolution states that species come from older species a very tiny little bit at a time." - [1:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=78s) "A population of cats have kittens. Those kittens all have mutations." - [1:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=82s) "The changes are small each generation and they all add up over a very long period of time." ![[images/Straw-Man-Logical-Fallacies-Part-1-t0063.webp]] ### 1:27 Say it back first - [1:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=87s) "To catch it in yourself, say a person's view back to them and ask them if you got it right." - [1:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=91s) "If they say no, then you haven't really understood what they were saying yet." - [1:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=94s) "The psychologist Carl Rogers suggests doing this in your next argument." - [1:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=98s) "Speak only after you've restated the other person's views and feelings to their satisfaction." ![[images/Straw-Man-Logical-Fallacies-Part-1-t0083.webp]] ### 1:43 On the receiving end - [1:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=103s) "When it's done to you, don't defend the straw man. And don't throw the word straw man at them." - [1:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=108s) "Just say, 'That's not quite what I meant. What I meant was this. Does that sound fair?'" - [1:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_teNsxJ6Q&t=112s) "So try it. That's not quite what I meant. I love the dog." ![[images/Straw-Man-Logical-Fallacies-Part-1-t0103.webp]] ## Anti-evolution argument *Stated fairly, from the comment the video answers and from Answers in Genesis. This short is mainly about the straw-man fallacy; evolution is one of its examples.* - **The commenters' version:** "I've never seen a cat give birth to a dog." If evolution were true, we should see one kind of animal producing another; we never do. - **The video's steel-manned version:** "No one has ever seen a mammal give birth to a new species." - **The creationist version in its own words:** Genesis says God made the beast of the earth "after his kind, and cattle after their kind" (Genesis 1:24-25, KJV) [R7]. Answers in Genesis's Calvin Smith reads this as "the dog kind will only reproduce and make more dogs, and when the cat or the elephant or whale kind produce offspring, they will only result in more cats or elephants or whales," and "Biblical creationists do not believe that one kind of creature will ever evolve into another, no matter how long they might reproduce" [R8]. The same post's title is "Speciation Is Not Evolution": AiG accepts that new species form, but only within a created kind. ## Answer *Point by point. Numbers refer to the References table.* ### 1. "A cat giving birth to a dog" is itself a straw man of evolution - Evolution predicts no such birth. As the video says, species change "a very tiny little bit at a time" across a population; see [[Microevolution is macroevolution (Is evolution true Part 7)]] and [[Is evolution mathematically impossible]] for the same answer at more length. - Wikipedia's "Straw man" article (citing Pirie 2007, pp. 155-157) lists "oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version" and "exaggerating ... an opponent's argument" among the forms of the fallacy [R1]. A one-birth cat-to-dog jump fits both. ### 2. The steel-manned version is true, and scientists agree - No mammal has been observed to give birth to a new species. The description explains why the video says "mammal": Lutes et al. produced, in the lab, four "self-sustaining clonal lineages of a tetraploid species" of whiptail lizard by crossing a parthenogenetic *Aspidoscelis exsanguis* with a male *A. inornata*, so instant, one-generation speciation does happen in some non-mammals [R5]. The paper's abstract says such events had "neither been observed in nature nor ... reconstituted in the laboratory" before. - The "no mammal case is known" part (description) wasn't checked against a source; it matches the general picture that mammals don't reproduce by parthenogenesis. ### 3. Mutations in every kitten - The description's "about 40 new mutations" per kitten: Wang et al. measured "a mutation rate of 0.86 × 10^-8 per bp per generation for the domestic cat (at an average parental age of 3.8 years)," 28% lower per generation than in humans [R6]. Across a diploid cat genome of roughly 5 billion letters that is about 43, so "about 40" is consistent (my arithmetic; the abstract doesn't give a per-kitten count). ### 4. The AiG "kind" boundary - The video doesn't address the "kinds" argument directly. AiG's position concedes speciation within a kind (for them, roughly a family) [R8]; the dispute is whether small changes can add up past that line. The video's answer, here and in earlier parts, is that there is no line: the same small per-generation changes keep accumulating. ### 5. The communication advice - Buber: *I and Thou* opens, "The one primary word is the combination I-Thou. The other primary word is the combination I-It" [R2]. The video's "a you or an it" is a fair paraphrase (Buber's German *Du* is the familiar "you"; Smith's 1937 translation renders it "Thou"). - Rogers: the description's quotation is accurate: "Each person can speak up for himself only after he has first restated the ideas and feelings of the previous speaker accurately, and to that speaker's satisfaction" [R3]. He proposed it as "a little laboratory experiment" for "the next time you get into an argument," which matches "suggests doing this in your next argument." The on-screen card is a faithful paraphrase, not a quotation. - "Steel man": Wikipedia's same article describes steelmanning as "addressing the strongest form of the other person's argument" [R1], which is what the video does with the cat-and-dog comment. ## Key takeaways - A straw man is arguing against a version of someone's view they never held, because it's easier to beat. - We build them by filling gaps in our summaries with worse versions: from fear, a wish to be right, or not understanding; our group's cheering rewards it. - "A cat never gives birth to a dog" attacks a version of evolution no scientist holds; the strongest version ("no mammal has been seen giving birth to a new species") is true and consistent with evolution. - Check yourself by restating the other view to the other person's satisfaction (Rogers); when it's done to you, just say "That's not quite what I meant." ## Things mentioned ### People - Martin Buber (philosopher); Carl Rogers (psychologist); Madsen Pirie (description, via Wikipedia) ### Books - *How to Win Every Argument: The Use and Abuse of Logic* by Madsen Pirie (2007), via the Wikipedia citation - *I and Thou* by Martin Buber (1923; tr. Ronald Gregor Smith, 1937) - *On Becoming a Person* by Carl R. Rogers (1961), which reprints the Rogers essay quoted ### Ideas - Straw man; steel man; I-Thou and I-It; restating before replying (Rogers's rule); speciation; parthenogenesis; de novo mutations ### Animals - Dog; cat (domestic cat mutation rate); whiptail lizards (*Aspidoscelis*) ### Links from the description - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man · https://archive.org/details/IAndThou · https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1102811108 · https://doi.org/10.1093/molbev/msac147 - https://joeliscurious.com · https://www.instagram.com/joeliscurious/ · https://www.tiktok.com/@joeliscurious · https://x.com/JoelisCurious · https://www.youtube.com/@joeliscurious ## Claims check | Claim in the video | Verdict | Source or note | |---|---|---| | A straw man argues against a version of someone's view they never said | **Accurate** | Standard definition [R1] | | Martin Buber wrote that we can meet a person as a "you" or treat them as an "it" | **Accurate (paraphrase)** | I-Thou / I-It [R2] | | Carl Rogers suggested restating the other person's views and feelings to their satisfaction before speaking | **Accurate** | Quotation checked [R3] | | On-screen: "Carl Rogers's rule, 1951" | **Plausible, not checked** | The essay is reprinted in *On Becoming a Person* (1961) [R3, R4]; the 1951 date isn't on the page read | | No one has ever seen a mammal give birth to a new species | **Accurate** | No known case; one-generation speciation has been made in lizards [R5] | | Evolutionary scientists agree with that | **Accurate** | Evolution predicts gradual change in populations, not one-birth jumps | | Kittens all have mutations; about 40 each (description) | **Accurate** | ~0.86 × 10^-8 per letter per generation [R6]; ~43 by arithmetic | | A lab produced a new, self-cloning whiptail lizard species in one generation (description) | **Accurate** | [R5] | ## References | # | Source | Exists? | Use in the video / role | Link | |---|---|---|---|---| | R1 | Wikipedia, "Straw man" (cites Madsen Pirie, *How to Win Every Argument*, Continuum, 2007, pp. 155-157) | **Exists** (read) | Description source: definition; also the steelmanning section; Pirie citation is in the article as described | [wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) | | R2 | Martin Buber, *I and Thou*, tr. Ronald Gregor Smith (1937), Internet Archive scan | **Exists** (read) | Description source: "you" or "it"; paraphrase accurate | [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/IAndThou) | | R3 | Carl R. Rogers, "Dealing With Breakdowns in Communication: Interpersonal and Intergroup," excerpt from *On Becoming a Person* (the essay the description calls "Communication: Its Blocking and Its Facilitation") | **Exists** (read) | Description source: Rogers's rule; quote accurate, in context | [listeningway.com](https://www.listeningway.com/rogers1-eng.html) | | R4 | Carl R. Rogers, *On Becoming a Person* (Houghton Mifflin, 1961) | **Exists** (not read directly) | Description source; quote checked via R3 | (no link in description) | | R5 | Lutes, Baumann, Neaves & Baumann, "Laboratory synthesis of an independently reproducing vertebrate species," *PNAS* 108(24):9910-9915 (2011) | **Exists** (abstract read) | Description source: why "mammal"; accurate | [doi:10.1073/pnas.1102811108](https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1102811108) | | R6 | Wang et al., "De novo Mutations in Domestic Cat are Consistent with an Effect of Reproductive Longevity on Both the Rate and Spectrum of Mutations," *Mol Biol Evol* 39(7):msac147 (2022) | **Exists** (abstract read) | Description source: about 40 per kitten; consistent | [doi:10.1093/molbev/msac147](https://doi.org/10.1093/molbev/msac147) | | R7 | Genesis 1:24-25 (KJV), Bible Gateway | **Exists** (read) | Added: "after his kind" | [biblegateway.com](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A24-25&version=KJV) | | R8 | Calvin Smith, "Speciation Is Not Evolution," Answers in Genesis blog, 2023-11-06 | **Exists** (read) | Added: the creationist "kind" argument; quotes accurate | [answersingenesis.org](https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/calvin-smith/2023/11/06/speciation-is-not-evolution/) | ### Not found or not checked - Pirie's pages 155-157 themselves weren't read; only Wikipedia's citation of them. - The "1951" date on the Rogers card and the original 1951 venue weren't checked. - "No mammal case is known" (description) wasn't checked against a specific source. - The commenters the video answers aren't identified. ## Added context - **Series:** Part 1 of a new "Logical Fallacies" series. Previous upload: [[Why are we so mean in the comments]]. - **Related:** [[Microevolution is macroevolution (Is evolution true Part 7)]] (the dog-and-non-dog argument); [[Is evolution mathematically impossible]] (the same "cat giving birth to a dog" comment); [[Why are we so mean in the comments]] (posted nine minutes earlier, on civility in the comments). - **On the description:** it mentions "first word on the evolution book," so the creator appears to be writing a book on evolution (no title given). ## Biographies ### Joel is Curious (the creator) YouTube channel **Joel is Curious**, mostly Shorts, from 2026-10-04. In his own words (video description): "I'm Joel, a software developer and former tech executive who likes to learn stuff. Science, history, Buddhism, Stoicism, and the thinkers behind them." He lists his sources in each description. (Sources: the video and its description.) ### Martin Buber (mentioned) Philosopher, author of *I and Thou* (German 1923; English translation by Ronald Gregor Smith, 1937), which contrasts the I-Thou and I-It relations. (Source: R2.) ### Carl Rogers (mentioned) Psychologist and psychotherapist; *On Becoming a Person* (1961) collects his essays, including the one on communication breakdowns quoted here. (Sources: R3, R4.)