# 021 What Your Team Actually Needs From You ![[images/020-Anita-Barraco-episode-art.jpg]] Part of [[Pixels & Priorities]] (listed in [[Pixels & Priorities - Audio Episodes 015-031]]). Previous: [[020 Remote, Hybrid, or Office - What Actually Works]]. Next: [[022 Workmares - Workplace Culture Follows You Home]]. - Show: Pixels & Priorities, hosted by Metsy Rose and J Schuh (RSS author field) - Episode: 021, published 2026-08-18 (RSS pubDate Tue 05:00 -0500); guest Anita Barraco, part 2 of 2 - Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/3na44vt667xe3sr8/PP_021_Anita_Part_2_Edited910jc.mp3 - Podbean page: https://pixelsandpriorities.podbean.com/e/021-what-your-team-actually-needs-from-you/ - Length: 44:37 (2,676.6 s measured from the mp3; matches the RSS `itunes:duration` of 2676 s). - RSS description: "Anita Barraco, UX Manager at Goosehead Insurance, joins Metsy and J to explore what product and UX teams actually need from their leaders. We discuss impactful mindset shifts to help your people do their best work." - Artwork: the feed's episode image is the same file as episode 020 (identical guest card, "Anita Barraco, User Experience Manager, Goosehead Insurance"), so this note reuses `images/020-Anita-Barraco-episode-art.jpg`. - Transcript: faster-whisper (medium, int8, CPU) on the mp3 with VAD on, beam size 5 (about 6.8 minutes of transcription, about 6,100 words). That pass hallucinated the first 29 seconds and dropped or garbled several stretches (about 3:05-3:37, 6:00-6:05, 12:26-12:45, 13:14-13:46, 14:25-14:57, 15:57-16:58, 22:03-22:16, 29:49-31:15 and 32:10-32:34), which were re-transcribed in 61 short overlapping chunks with VAD off (about 2.5 minutes); a few phrases around 15:25-15:45 stayed clipped. The publisher transcript (Podbean VTT, `PP_021_Anita_Part_2_Editeda3tcd.vtt`, about 7,600 words) was used for the outline timestamps and to check names and wording. All quotes come from the Whisper transcript (case and stray-character fixes only). Speakers are not diarized; attribution follows content and the speakers addressing each other by name (Metsy: show open, the questions to Anita, benefit of the doubt, modeling basic questions, bids for connection, the coffee-shop and barefoot stories, informal authority, the servant-leadership wrap-up; J: AI and managers, the Bangalore story, appreciation, respected-accepted-connected, the three kinds of check-ins, the UX library, the propinquity question, the magnetic hook, the PM question, the close; Anita: the manager role, servant leadership, hope, vulnerability, Ted Lasso, power hours, propinquity and the dev team, advice for new managers). Where a line is uncertain it says "likely." Correct spellings are **Metsy Rose**, **J Schuh** and **Anita Barraco** (Whisper heard "Metzi," "Mitzi," "Betsy," "Jay Shue," "Jay" and "Baracco"). ## Hosts - **Metsy Rose** - co-host; product manager and strategist (show open). Says her last three PM roles had no direct reports, so everything she does is "informal authority," and that she rarely shares physical space with her stakeholders and developers. Recalls that as a developer she would head to a Starbucks to work through a tough bug and usually had the answer before she arrived, and that running down the hall barefoot meant a server was down. Sat next to J at a former employer. - **J Schuh** - co-host; design strategist, educator, and creative mind (show open). Tells of struggling to understand fast-talking developers in India and later teaching design thinking in Bangalore. Says he and Anita worked together at an organization with a "UX library" for heads-down work, and that sitting next to Metsy (who gave him a spare magnetic hook, which now holds his bottle opener) led to lunches that were "kind of the beginning of this podcast." ## Guest - **Anita Barraco** - UX manager at Goosehead Insurance (show intro and episode art). In this episode she says she follows servant leadership as a manager, has managed developers in various countries overseas, is "half introverted, half extroverted," and once asked management to seat her new UX team next to a resentful development team. Background from part 1 ([[020 Remote, Hybrid, or Office - What Actually Works]]): three decades in UX, visual communications, UI, web design and multimedia. - Web sources: the show's guest page (https://pixelsandpriorities.ghost.io/anita-barraco/) describes "three decades of experience across user experience design, visual communication, UI design, web design, multimedia, and UX leadership" and says she advocates servant leadership. Her public LinkedIn profile (https://www.linkedin.com/in/anita-barraco) lists her as User Experience Manager at Goosehead Insurance since February 2025, previously User Experience Design Principal at Sabre (2015-2025), based in Roanoke, Texas. ## Outline (timestamps are mm:ss) - **0:00 Show open.** Metsy introduces herself and J, then welcomes back Anita Barraco for a second episode. Last time was the employee view of hybrid, remote and in-office work; today is the manager and leader view. - **1:07 What a manager is for.** Anita: help the team stay motivated, engaged, happy and healthy, whether getting them back to the office or keeping them engaged at home. Returning to the office after remote work is hard, "like starting a workout routine again"; you have to prepare mentally. She reads when people are having a bad day and asks, "Do you want to just go to lunch?" - **2:57 AI won't replace the human part.** J says that despite talk of AI optimizing everything, including management, the core of the role is getting a pulse on the team so people want to be on it: support, training, "air cover." Companies lose people when no one notices that someone "hasn't been the same for the past week." He imagines an AI manager flagging Metsy's stats to HR and a counselor showing up at her desk: "No, I'm fine. Go away." - **6:19 Humans who understand humans.** Anita has seen movies with AI psychiatrists and calls an AI manager "a nightmare"; management roles have to be human. She follows servant leadership: helping the team get what it needs. An AI's empathy would be "a series of programmed responses" and seem disingenuous. - **7:44 Soft skills under fast change.** Metsy (likely) picks up "humans who understand people": soft skills (understanding, trust, empathy) stay key because the people you manage, especially in product and design, face a fast rate of change and shifting job expectations. Anita adds that people take comfort in knowing someone has their back. - **9:33 Managing remote people.** Metsy asks how. Anita: before the work begins, three to four minutes of "How are you doing?"; you can read tone even on screen. COVID-era isolation brought mental health issues. She does this for people she doesn't manage too, and tries to help people find "a glimmer of hope." - **11:16 Slow down so you understand.** J tells of a call with passionate, fast-talking developers in India; he blamed "a bad phone connection." Later, teaching design thinking in Bangalore, he asked a new friend, who explained that India is a big place where people speak different languages and struggle to understand each other too, and advised: just ask them to slow down a little. J calls it a metaphor for now: under pressure to hit KPIs, step back, slow down and understand where people are coming from. - **14:33 Trust and benefit of the doubt.** Metsy: as trust builds, it is easier to give each other the benefit of the doubt and to have difficult conversations. Without trust, she has avoided saying "I'm just not getting what you're saying" and made situations more complicated. - **15:54 Vulnerability builds connection.** Anita: asking someone to repeat or slow down shows vulnerability, which makes the other person feel you are really trying to understand them. J agrees: being curious and a little vulnerable is part of good management; he tells his team he recognizes the last few weeks were stressful. - **17:48 Appreciation.** J: humans crave appreciation; when extra effort goes unnoticed long enough, people disengage, decide "maybe this isn't the right place," and leave. - **18:43 Model that it's safe to ask.** Metsy deliberately asks basic questions early with a new developer team. Many organizations say "there are no stupid questions" and then shut you down; she asked "What is BPI?" in a meeting the day before. Anita: being a manager doesn't mean knowing everything, especially with AI uncertainty: "Nobody has the answer yet." - **20:30 Questions are not a red flag.** J calls it outdated to assume that someone who asks many questions is unqualified; they may be clarifying, since acronyms like FTP mean different things in different places. Curious people "are actually going to wind up on top." - **21:59 Communicate differently by context.** J adapts his style: with remote people, he asks for cameras on in one-on-ones ("morning hair" is fine) and asks about family. Everyone wants to be "respected, accepted, and connected," though some need only five core people. For hybrid people who come in occasionally, he makes a big deal of it and appreciates the long commute; for people he sees daily, he walks by their cube instead of sending a chat, and suggests "walk and talk." - **25:21 The boss who stopped by.** Anita (likely) recalls a favorite boss who came by every morning, then appeared to fake a phone call to escape. Metsy: even if he was faking, he was intentional; she calls these "bids for connection." Notice bids coming to you too: if you're mid-presentation, send a quick "Can I connect with you in 20 minutes?" When people start reaching out to you, trust is building. - **27:49 Ted Lasso and global teams.** Anita has managed developers in several countries, mixing in-person, hybrid and remote people across cultures: "staying curious, not judgmental" (she credits Ted Lasso) is valuable for leaders now. - **28:26 Information overload in the office.** J: commuting in only to sit on screens beside six to ten others, with chats popping up during meetings. At an organization where he and Anita worked, people could sit in the "UX library," a set of tables that signaled heads-down work. How do you help teams cope? - **31:20 Power hours.** Anita: think twice before tapping someone with headphones on; teach people to take an hour in a hotel cube or quiet space with Teams, chat and email closed. "Everybody should have a power hour a day," like Metsy's meetings with herself. - **32:31 Get out of the building.** J recalls that Metsy, as a developer, went to coffee shops to solve problems. Metsy: she usually had the solution before she reached Starbucks; running barefoot down the hall meant a server was down. She has spent her career learning how she works. Anita, half introvert and half extrovert, sometimes eats lunch alone with headphones to recharge. - **34:20 The propinquity effect.** J asks about a term Anita raised in prep. Anita says she learned it from books, "specifically Crucial Conversations": people you sit near every day, even ones you have nothing in common with, can become close friends through daily hellos and goodbyes. - **35:47 The magnetic hook.** J and Metsy sat next to each other; she gave him a spare magnetic hook that now holds his bottle opener. Lunches followed, and that was "kind of the beginning of this podcast." - **36:59 Seating UX with developers.** UX was a new team at a past employer and developers resented being told what to do. Anita asked management to seat the teams together and scheduled happy hours; humanizing each other showed "they're not here to boss me around." "It really worked." - **38:28 PMs and informal authority.** J asks Metsy about stakeholders. Metsy: in her last three PM roles no one reported to her, so everything is informal authority. She uses office days to meet people, seeks first-time stakeholder conversations out of curiosity, wants stakeholders' voices in the room ("I don't want to build something that's going to make a user's life better and yours worse"), builds a reputation for curiosity, and does stakeholder research. Anita (likely): trust is at the core of any solid relationship. - **41:18 Advice for a new manager.** J asks Anita what to tell someone just promoted to their first manager role. Anita: embrace servant leadership; learn what your people need, ask what tools, systems or AI they lack, support them with the work and emotionally, and the whole team looks great. Metsy: success is human-focused relationship building, not directing tasks. - **43:26 Meet people where they are, and close.** J: whether remote, hybrid or in office, recognize each person as a human wanting to do their best; being a support, even when you're not their manager, can build relationships that outlast the organization, and he has met some of his best friends that way. Metsy thanks Anita; outro. ## Standout quotes (verbatim from the Whisper transcript) - 2:03 "Getting yourself motivated, it's like starting a workout routine again" (Anita) - 3:11 "I don't think AI is ever going to be able to replace that human component of knowing how to deal with somebody when they're struggling" (J, from the VAD-off re-transcription) - 3:50 "I think that is the telltale sign of a really good manager is when people want to be part of their team." (J) - 5:20 "I don't know if AI is going to pick up on that." (J) - 6:37 "it's like a no-brainer that management roles have to be humans" (Anita) - 7:17 "it's a series of programmed responses, right?" (Anita) - 7:44 "I like that you said, not just humans, but humans who understand people as leaders and managers." (likely Metsy) - 10:59 "you have to have hope or else it's not gonna go well." (Anita) - 11:09 "I just wanna help them find a glimmer of hope is what I try to do." (Anita) - 12:54 "India is a very big place" (J, quoting his colleague in Bangalore) - 13:21 "Just say, Hey, listen, I'm not getting some of what you're saying. Is there any way you could slow down just a little bit?" (J, quoting the advice; from the VAD-off re-transcription) - 14:15 "I think we just need to step back, slow down" (J) - 14:46 "The trust builds, it's easier to give each other benefit of the doubt" (Metsy, from the VAD-off re-transcription) - 17:58 "That's also something I think we crave as humans is appreciation." (J) - 18:47 "that being vulnerable is safe on your team and that you can ask questions." (Metsy) - 19:18 "People will say that phrase all the time, but I've been in organizations that would say that phrase. And the second I ask a basic question, I'm shut down." (Metsy, on "no stupid questions") - 19:35 "What is BPI? I have no idea. Is that a system?" (Metsy) - 19:55 "Being a manager doesn't mean you know everything." (Anita) - 20:21 "nobody has the answer yet right so let's just be here and work through it together" (Anita) - 20:35 "I think an outdated thought is that if you hire somebody and they're asking a lot of questions maybe they're unqualified." (J) - 21:40 "the people that are ultimately really curious and ask questions are actually going to wind up on top" (J) - 23:10 "Every human on the planet wants to be respected, accepted and connected in some way." (J) - 24:58 "hey let's walk and talk" (J) - 25:52 "it was like one of my favorite bosses I ever had" (likely Anita) - 26:42 "I call it bids for connection" (Metsy) - 28:16 "I think is Ted Lasso's day curious, not judgmental" (Anita; Whisper's "Ted Lasso's day curious" is "Ted Lasso, staying curious" in the publisher transcript) - 30:20 "But if you sat in the UX library, a physically different place" (J, from the VAD-off re-transcription) - 31:57 "Everybody should have a power hour a day." (Anita) - 33:03 "I would usually get the solution before I arrived at Starbucks." (Metsy) - 33:29 "They knew that a server was down, right?" (Metsy) - 33:32 "I've spent a lot of my career, not only building skills, but understanding who I am and how I work." (Metsy) - 34:26 "the propinquity effect" (J) - 35:38 "Just that opportunity, serendipitously sitting by them, now you've become really great friends" (Anita) - 36:21 "I don't know if we would be here today if we hadn't sat next to each other." (J) - 36:45 "And that was kind of the beginning of this podcast." (J) - 38:10 "Hey, they're not here to boss me around. They're here to work with us and make us better." (Anita) - 39:00 "No one reports to me. So everything I do is informal authority." (Metsy) - 39:58 "I don't want to build something that's going to make a, a user's life better and yours worse." (Metsy) - 40:13 "Research is often referred to just from a user standpoint, but there's also stakeholder research" (Metsy) - 41:49 "It's really about that servant leadership mentality." (Anita) - 43:16 "It is a human focused relationship building type of success." (Metsy) - 43:43 "you have to meet the person where? They are" (J; the publisher transcript reads "meet the person where they are") ## Books mentioned - **Crucial Conversations** - Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan and Al Switzler (authors not named in the episode). Anita says she learned the term "propinquity effect" from "some books, specifically Crucial Conversations" (34:35). ## Things mentioned - People: Anita's former boss (unnamed); J's colleague in Bangalore (unnamed); developers in India and other countries (unnamed). - Fiction: *Ted Lasso* (the "curious, not judgmental" line); unnamed movies with AI psychiatrists. - Organizations and places: Goosehead Insurance; India and Bangalore; Starbucks; a former employer shared by J and Anita with a "UX library"; a former employer where J and Metsy sat side by side. - Tools: Microsoft Teams; chat; email; cameras in one-on-ones; "hotel" cubes and quiet spaces; headphones. - Ideas: managers keeping teams motivated, engaged, happy and healthy; return to office as restarting a workout routine; AI managers versus human empathy; "air cover"; servant leadership; soft skills amid fast change; opening remote meetings with check-ins; hope versus despair; asking people to slow down; benefit of the doubt; vulnerability as connection; appreciation and disengagement; modeling basic questions; questions as clarification, not incompetence; acronyms with several meanings (BPI, FTP); respected, accepted and connected; adapting communication to remote, hybrid and in-office people; walk and talk; bids for connection; curious, not judgmental; information overload in the office; the UX library; power hours; getting out of the building to solve problems; knowing how you work; the propinquity effect; seating teams together and happy hours; informal authority; stakeholder research; a reputation for curiosity; advice for first-time managers; meeting people where they are. - Callbacks: episode 020 with Anita (screens in the office, commutes, reading people, Metsy's meetings with herself); Metsy's coffee-shop habit "in another episode"; "which we've talked about in the past" (curiosity and understanding). ## Good work, productivity and career ideas - **Read the room and act on it.** Notice when someone hasn't been themselves, and offer lunch or a conversation; that's where managers keep people (1:07-6:19). - **Lead as a servant.** Ask what your people need (tools, systems, AI, support) and clear the way; for new managers, start there instead of directing tasks (6:19-7:44, 41:18-43:26). - **Open remote meetings with the person.** Spend three to four minutes on "How are you doing?" before the work, and try to leave people with some hope (9:33-11:16). - **Ask people to slow down.** When you don't understand, say so and ask them to slow down; under KPI pressure, step back to understand where people are coming from (11:16-14:33). - **Build trust before you need it.** Trust makes benefit of the doubt and direct, difficult conversations easier (14:33-15:54). - **Be a little vulnerable and model basic questions.** Saying "I don't know what BPI is" shows the team it's safe to ask; treat many questions as clarifying, not as a sign someone is unqualified (15:54-21:59). - **Say thank you for the extra effort.** Unnoticed extra effort leads to disengagement and resignations (17:48-18:43). - **Match the check-in to the context.** Ask for cameras in remote one-on-ones, celebrate hybrid people's office days, and walk over instead of chatting with people nearby (21:59-25:21). - **Watch for bids for connection.** Make them, and answer others' bids even with a quick "Can I connect in 20 minutes?" (25:21-27:49). - **Protect a daily power hour.** Leave people with headphones alone, and go to a quiet space with chat and email closed for an hour of deep work (28:26-32:31). - **Learn how you work.** A walk to a coffee shop can unlock a problem; know when you need introvert time (32:31-34:20). - **Use proximity on purpose.** Seat teams that need to collaborate near each other and add informal time such as happy hours (34:20-38:28). - **As a PM, lead with curiosity.** With informal authority, use office days to meet people, bring stakeholders' voices into the room, and do stakeholder research (38:28-41:18). ## Claims check | Claim | Check | |---|---| | The propinquity effect: people who sit near each other every day become friends, even without common ground (34:52) | Consistent with the classic study: Leon Festinger, Stanley Schachter and Kurt Back, *Social Pressures in Informal Groups* (1950), found that friendships in MIT's Westgate housing depended heavily on physical and functional distance; the APA Dictionary of Psychology defines the propinquity effect this way (https://dictionary.apa.org/propinquity-effect). | | Anita learned the term from *Crucial Conversations* (34:35) | Partly confirmed. Joseph Grenny, a *Crucial Conversations* coauthor, discusses propinquity in a Crucial Learning column (https://cruciallearning.com/blog/vicarious-conversations/), and the same authors' book *Influencer* discusses it at length. Whether *Crucial Conversations* itself uses the term was not confirmed. | | "Staying curious, not judgmental" is from *Ted Lasso* (28:16) | Anita attributes the line to the TV series *Ted Lasso*; the scene and wording were not verified for this note. | | "Bids for connection" (26:42) | The term is associated with relationship researcher John Gottman; Metsy does not name a source. | | COVID-era isolation brought mental health issues (10:26) | Presented as Anita's observation; not independently checked. | | Episode length | RSS 44:36 (2676 s); measured mp3 44:37 (2,676.6 s). | ## Added context - Audio-only RSS episode (not on the YouTube channel). Second of two episodes with Anita Barraco; part 1 is [[020 Remote, Hybrid, or Office - What Actually Works]].