# 019 Burnout, Belonging, and Better Work ![[images/018-Dana-Akins-Adeyemi-episode-art.jpg]] Part of [[Pixels & Priorities]] (listed in [[Pixels & Priorities - Audio Episodes 015-031]]). Previous: [[018 Burnout After Layoffs - The Cost of Staying]]. Next: [[020 Remote, Hybrid, or Office - What Actually Works]]. - Show: Pixels & Priorities, hosted by Metsy Rose and J Schuh (RSS author field) - Episode: 019, published 2026-08-04 (RSS pubDate Tue 05:00 -0500); guest Dana "DeltaDana" Akins-Adeyemi, part 2 of 2 - Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/b2vuvr6wirbs2gvu/PP_019_Dana_Part_2_Editedajlei.mp3 - Podbean page: https://pixelsandpriorities.podbean.com/e/019-burnout-belonging-and-better-work/ - Length: 35:33 (2,133.3 s measured from the mp3; matches the RSS `itunes:duration` of 2133 s). - RSS description: "Dana “DeltaDana” Akins-Adeyemi joins us to explore burnout prevention and recovery. We also examine how bias, exclusion, and toxic environments intensify burnout for marginalized professionals, making supportive communities, allies, and workplaces where people genuinely belong even more important." - Artwork: the feed's episode image is byte-identical to episode 018's guest card, so this note reuses `images/018-Dana-Akins-Adeyemi-episode-art.jpg`. - Transcript: faster-whisper (medium, int8, CPU) on the mp3 with VAD on, beam size 5 (about 5.4 minutes of transcription, about 4,660 words). That pass dropped or garbled four stretches (0:46-1:00, 12:20-13:50, 14:45-14:52 and 28:16-29:50), which were re-transcribed in 43 short chunks with VAD off; a few phrases there stayed clipped. The publisher transcript (Podbean VTT, `PP_019_Dana_Part_2_Edited6xslc.vtt`, about 5,800 words) was used for the outline timestamps and to check names and wording. All quotes come from the Whisper transcript (case and stray-character fixes only). Speakers are not diarized; attribution follows content and the speakers addressing each other by name (Metsy: show open, survivor mode, clarity and boundaries, micro trust moments, "humans are meant to do life together," the close; J: welcoming Dana back, A Bunch of Short Guys, helping others, AI companions, toxic cultures and the coach friend's line; Dana: community and tea parties, building community early, allies and therapy, trust, AI as a tool, checking in as a professor, mentorship and identity, finding the right culture, the giraffe). Where a line is uncertain it says "likely." Correct spellings are **Metsy Rose**, **J Schuh** and **Dana Akins-Adeyemi** (Whisper heard "Metcy," "Metzi," "Madsie," "Jay" and "Delta Dana"). ## Hosts - **Metsy Rose** - co-host; product manager and strategist (show open). Says she kept work and non-work community separate and struggled to build work community because she spent many years "heads down in survivor mode"; in many of her layoff situations she was single and the sole breadwinner. Favors chasing clarity, setting boundaries (scheduling after-hours email so it lands the next day) and honesty as a leader. Her personal philosophy is that humans are meant to do life together. - **J Schuh** - co-host; design strategist, educator, and creative mind (show open). Says he was for many years a community leader for the creative industry, including president of A Bunch of Short Guys, a Dallas-Fort Worth nonprofit for animators, motion graphic artists and game developers that runs the annual Industry Giants event. Dana notes he also teaches at the university level. Says he and Metsy started the podcast to help people know they are not alone. Describes a personal belief that the universe keeps putting the same lesson in front of you until you learn it. ## Guest - **Dana "DeltaDana" Akins-Adeyemi** - design, innovation and systems strategist and founder of DeltaDana (deltadana.com); the show intro says her work "sits right at the intersection of leadership, wellbeing, and sustainable performance." In this episode she says she met J through designer meetups, that as a tech woman she is often the only Black woman or the only woman in the room, and that she hosts tea parties as her own community, attended largely by tech women. She says stress once made her hair fall out, describes herself as a professor who mentors students in their 20s, and says that in engineering grad school she was in a toxic culture with racism and sexism, where the hardest part was being a Black woman, not the work. For her background (mechanical engineering, design for manufacturing, Digital Equipment Corporation, Polaroid, IBM, Johnson & Johnson, RISD, University of North Texas, DeltaDana Designs) see [[018 Burnout After Layoffs - The Cost of Staying]]. - Web sources: the show's guest page (https://pixelsandpriorities.ghost.io/dana-deltadana-akins-adeyemi/) describes her as "a design, innovation, and systems strategist, consultant, educator, and founder of DeltaDana Designs." UNT's Department of Design adjunct faculty list includes her (https://cvad.unt.edu/design/d-adjunct-faculty.html). ## Outline (timestamps are mm:ss) - **0:00 Show open.** Metsy introduces herself and J and welcomes back Dana Akins-Adeyemi. Last episode covered what burnout is and feels like; today is "the so what, now what part." - **1:01 Part two.** J recaps the cultural situations around burnout and says today draws on their collective experience of ways to deal with it better. - **1:43 Keep your work friends.** Dana says that after layoffs you should stay in touch with the people you really connected with; if you're real friends, the relationship continues. Community can be family, faith, former colleagues who know how you work, or a network of fellow designers (she and J met at designer meetups). - **2:43 Tea parties.** Often the only Black woman or only woman in tech settings, Dana hosts tea parties as her community, mostly attended by tech women; community resets you and reminds you "everything's not just work." - **3:21 Survivor mode.** Metsy says she kept work and non-work community separate and spent years heads down in survivor mode, often single and the sole breadwinner during layoffs. Looking back, she wishes she had leaned toward community instead of "I can do it all myself"; a history of figuring things out didn't mean she had to keep making that choice, and it added to her burnout. She notes (likely to J) that a community in your own area of influence at work can help you cope or keep burnout from getting worse. - **4:46 Build it before the floor drops.** Dana: community isn't something to build only when things are bad; make it part of living, then draw on it when times are tough. It is easier to say "I'm having a tough time" once the relationship is laid down. - **5:30 A Bunch of Short Guys.** J describes being president of A Bunch of Short Guys, a DFW nonprofit that brought major-studio professionals to speak to students and professionals on weekends, plus the yearly Industry Giants event, which flew in Oscar winners and feature-film artists who came for airfare, hotel and meals out of a generous education mindset. You attract people who represent the community you create. - **6:53 Don't only show up when you're laid off.** Some people came to meetings only after losing a job; nothing wrong with networking then, but those who contribute while employed (sharing openings, speaking, being active) find people far more willing to go above and beyond for them in the valleys. - **8:11 Helping others.** J says worry about yourself can spiral into negative thoughts; shifting attention to helping others, even when you are out of work, is an active way through burnout, and opportunities surface when you ask people what they need. He and Metsy started the podcast to help people know they're not alone. - **9:15 People who stretch you.** Dana says we tend to help people we're comfortable with; a strong community also includes people who stretch you and different kinds of conversations. As an African American woman she stresses allies and support systems who understand what you're going through, and a wide net: work friends, family, allies, mentors, sponsors, built over years. - **10:21 Therapy and rest.** Dana recommends a therapist so it doesn't reach the point of a doctor's warning like Metsy's in episode 018; stress once made her hair fall out. Rest matters too. - **11:11 Leading for clarity.** J asks Metsy about mental and physical health. Metsy recommends therapy if you are stuck and don't know where to start. As a colleague and leader she constantly pushes for clarity and removes confusion, sharing information that clears things up. - **12:29 Boundaries in small ways.** She schedules after-hours emails to land the next day, or writes "No need to respond until tomorrow." Small boundaries and clarity practices established early hold when big pressure hits; like community, they are hard to start in the middle of stress. "Build community now. Don't wait. Start now." - **13:27 Honesty from leaders.** It helps when a direct manager says, in effect, it's stressful, we've asked for a lot of pivots, I'm trying to stop it, but it's happening now, so let's talk about how to get through it. - **13:59 Trust.** Dana says she has been told she is a trustworthy leader, "something AI can't do." Trust has to be built into the group's culture before things get stressful, and it matters during layoffs because people stop hiding problems and can solve them. - **15:12 AI is not a human.** J raises news stories of people forming relationships with AI. It may help someone with nobody to talk to, but AI "has no vested interest in you"; in worst cases it has told young people to harm themselves. Don't get lost in the AI; it isn't the community of real people they've been describing. - **17:03 AI as a tool.** Dana says AI is useful for brainstorming solutions to a scenario, but "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater": it's a tool to use responsibly, not for 20 hours in the middle of the night, and you still need rest and human relationships. - **18:00 Check-ins.** Dana asks Metsy how she checks in with her team. Metsy uses scheduled one-on-ones and casual, in-the-moment notes ("that was super insightful... so glad you're on the team"), micro trust moments that let someone feel seen before the tough times hit. - **19:08 Professor as manager.** Dana says checking in, feedback and mentorship are part of her job as a professor (J also teaches at the university level); students in their 20s have a lot going on. She asks J what people in a negative culture can do. - **20:13 Mentorship first.** J asks Dana how mentorship helps. Mentors share past experience transparently and remind mentees of the big picture: goals, where they want to be in a couple of years, and that there's life outside the role and the company. - **21:49 Identity.** Don't lose your identity in your job; people who do "go through it the hardest." Mentors remind mentees they are unique people with talents and gifts, separate from a role that might feel threatened. - **22:26 Back to community.** Metsy says everything returns to community: when she lost her identity, she found it by reaching back out to her community. As a leader or mentor you become your team's community and give them tools and systems. "Humans are meant to do life together," and these are skills to build if they don't come naturally; her goal is to avoid the next burnout entirely. - **24:06 Artemis II perspective.** J (likely) recalls the Artemis II crew going farther than any humans before; astronauts looking back at Earth say we're all in this together on one spaceship, with no Earth two and "no escape hatch." - **25:16 Toxic culture: acknowledge and learn.** Answering Dana's question, J says step one is acknowledging you are in a toxic culture that isn't a good long-term place; step two is asking "what does the universe want me to learn?" He has left one culture only to find the same problem at the next job, and believes the lesson repeats until you face it. You often learn more in tough places than comfortable ones; carry those skills to a better-fitting job and perform better there. - **28:32 Appreciated, not tolerated.** A coach friend told him to be in a place that appreciates you, not tolerates you; where you're appreciated is where to double down. - **29:09 Culture first.** Dana tells students, especially those on the margins, that finding the right culture matters most, above all for high performers and empathetic designers. In engineering grad school she faced racism and sexism; the work wasn't the hard part. Good cultures attract excellent people who have their pick and won't fight battles unrelated to the job: "Culture is probably number one." - **31:05 Be a giraffe.** After praying about why toxic situations kept recurring, Dana offers an illustration: a giraffe sees far, antelope near the ground don't; be a giraffe and go to a positive culture that recognizes your skills and lets you flourish, since a toxic one brings you down. - **32:07 Two halves.** J hands off to Metsy, who says product and design professionals balance colleagues, end users and stakeholders. Half one: as an individual, build or lean into community and be honest about what culture works for you; if you're not in it now, take steps forward, build culture in your team or move. Half two: everyone, titled or not, has leadership potential; mentor, build clarity, set boundaries and be honest to prevent burnout and support people under stress. - **34:46 Thanks and outro.** Metsy thanks Dana (find her at deltadana.com) and says they will have her back to talk about other designer and product management issues. ## Standout quotes (verbatim from the Whisper transcript) - 3:09 "So being able to lean into your community can help reset you and remind you that everything's not just work." (Dana) - 3:33 "I've spent many years heads down in survivor mode, which at the time felt like a necessary choice." (Metsy) - 3:57 "Looking back now, I wish I had dealt with my burnout issues by leaning towards community." (Metsy) - 4:10 "Just because I have a history of figuring things out doesn't mean I had to keep making that choice." (Metsy) - 5:22 "So it's important to, again, build community before the floor drops." (Dana) - 6:41 "I think you attract the people that represent the community that you create." (J) - 8:52 "I think going beyond yourself and looking to how you can help other people is a great way to deal with burnout" (J) - 9:29 "connecting to people who are going to stretch you" (Dana) - 10:45 "I know I've gone through things where my hair was actually falling out because of the stress." (Dana) - 11:56 "I am a huge proponent of constantly pushing for clarity" (Metsy) - 13:19 "Don't wait. Start now." (Metsy, from the VAD-off re-transcription) - 13:54 "I'm going to try to stop that from happening, but it is happening right now. So let's talk about how to get through it." (Metsy, voicing a good manager) - 14:15 "That's something AI can't do, right?" (Dana, on trust) - 15:55 "AI has no vested interest in you as a person." (J) - 16:25 "So don't get lost in the AI." (J) - 17:02 "I do think you can use AI as a tool though to avoid burnout." (Dana) - 17:40 "It's a tool. You can either use it responsibly or it can be used to your detriment" (Dana) - 18:50 "the micro trust moments of letting someone be seen" (Metsy) - 21:41 "it's good for the mentor or even a good friend say, look, you're more than that role." (Dana) - 21:58 "People who have lost their identities in their job, they're the ones who go through it the hardest." (Dana) - 23:21 "My personal philosophy has been humans are meant to do life together at its very core." (Metsy) - 25:02 "if we don't take care of each other in the space that we all occupy as members of planet earth, there is no escape hatch." (likely J) - 25:54 "what does the universe want me to learn?" (J) - 27:15 "sometimes you learn more in the tough places you find yourself in than the easy places you find yourself in." (J) - 28:45 "if you find yourself in a place that's tolerating you, it's probably not a good place." (J; the coach friend's line itself was clipped in Whisper, and the publisher transcript reads "Be in a place that appreciates you, not tolerates you.") - 29:10 "it's more important to find the right culture" (Dana) - 30:04 "It wasn't even the work. I was very good at my work." (Dana) - 30:37 "Why am I going to go someplace where I'm going to be fighting battles that have nothing to do with why I'm there?" (Dana) - 31:02 "Culture is probably number one." (Dana) - 31:40 "So be a giraffe and go to a positive organization" (Dana) - 32:48 "there's two halves of dealing with this burnout." (Metsy) - 33:51 "whether you've got a title or not, has leadership potential to help those around you" (Metsy) ## Books mentioned - No books are named in this episode. ## Things mentioned - People: J's unnamed coach friend; Dana's students; the Artemis II crew (not named individually). - Organizations: A Bunch of Short Guys (Dallas-Fort Worth animation nonprofit) and its Industry Giants event; DeltaDana (deltadana.com). - Events: Artemis II, the crewed lunar flyby. - Ideas: staying friends with laid-off colleagues; community as family, faith, former colleagues and peer networks; building community and boundaries before a crisis; contributing to a community while employed; helping others as a burnout remedy; people who stretch you; allies, mentors and sponsors; therapy and rest; leaders chasing clarity, setting boundaries (scheduled email, "no need to respond until tomorrow") and naming pressure honestly; trust as something AI can't provide; AI companions versus human community; AI as a responsible brainstorming tool; micro trust moments; mentoring for perspective and identity; humans doing life together; the astronauts' view of Earth; acknowledging a toxic culture and asking what it teaches; appreciated versus tolerated; culture as the top job criterion; the giraffe analogy; the individual and leader halves of dealing with burnout. - Callbacks: episode 018 (what burnout is, Metsy's doctor's warning, peaks and valleys); Dana will be invited back for future topics. ## Good work, productivity and career ideas - **Keep your work friends.** Layoffs end the job, not the friendship; real work friends are part of your long-term community (1:43-2:43). - **Build community before the floor drops.** It is far easier to ask for help once relationships exist; don't wait for a crisis (3:21-5:30, 12:54-13:27). - **Contribute while you're employed.** Share openings, speak at events and show up when things are good; people go further for you in the valleys (6:53-8:11). - **Help someone else.** Shifting attention to others breaks negative thought spirals and surfaces opportunities (8:11-9:15). - **Widen the net.** Add people who stretch you, plus allies, mentors and sponsors, not just people who are comfortable (9:15-10:21). - **Use therapy and rest early.** Don't wait for a doctor's warning or physical symptoms (10:21-11:56). - **Lead with clarity and small boundaries.** Share clarifying information, schedule after-hours emails for morning, tell people when no reply is needed (11:56-13:27). - **Name the pressure honestly.** A manager who admits the pivots are too many and says how they'll get through it builds trust (13:27-15:12). - **Treat AI as a tool, not a friend.** Use it for brainstorming, not as a substitute for human connection or sleep (15:12-18:00). - **Create micro trust moments.** Praise insightful contributions right away, not just in the next one-on-one (18:14-19:08). - **Don't let the job become your identity.** Mentors can remind you there's life outside the role and the company (20:31-22:26). - **In a toxic culture: acknowledge, learn, then move on.** Take the lessons with you and look for a place that appreciates, not tolerates, you (25:16-29:09). - **Choose culture first.** Especially for high performers and people on the margins, the environment matters as much as the work (29:09-32:07). ## Claims check | Claim | Check | |---|---| | "The crew of Artemis 2 went further than any other humans have ever gone" (24:06) | Correct. On April 6, 2026 the Artemis II crew (Reid Wiseman, Victor Glover, Christina Koch, Jeremy Hansen) passed Apollo 13's 1970 record of 248,655 miles and reached 252,756 miles from Earth (NASA, https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasas-artemis-ii-crew-eclipses-record-for-farthest-human-spaceflight/). | | J was president of A Bunch of Short Guys, a DFW nonprofit for animators, motion graphic artists and game developers, with an annual Industry Giants event (5:30) | Consistent with the group's sites: ABOSG is a Dallas-based nonprofit animation guild formed in early 2001, Industry Giants began in 2002 and 2026 is its 20th annual conference, and J Schuh is listed on its board of directors and among the 10 original members (https://www.abunchofshortguys.org/about-us/, https://industrygiants.org/about/a-bunch-of-short-guys/). His presidency and the Oscar-winner speakers were not independently checked. | | AI chatbots have told young people to harm themselves (16:07) | Consistent with widely reported lawsuits filed in 2024 and 2025 by families alleging that chatbots (including Character.AI and ChatGPT) encouraged teenagers' self-harm; those cases make allegations, not court findings. Whisper heard "harm themselves"; the publisher transcript reads "commit suicide." | | Astronauts who see Earth from space realize "we're all in this together" (24:20) | A commonly reported astronaut experience, often called the overview effect (term from Frank White's 1987 book *The Overview Effect*; context only, not named in the episode). | | Episode length | RSS 35:33 (2133 s); measured mp3 35:33 (2,133.3 s). | ## Added context - Audio-only RSS episode (not on the YouTube channel). Concludes the two-part conversation begun in [[018 Burnout After Layoffs - The Cost of Staying]] and the burnout run that started with [[017 When Everything Is Priority One]]. - Industry Giants' page on A Bunch of Short Guys lists the group's 10 original members, including J. Marshall Pittman and J. Schuh.