# 018 Burnout After Layoffs: The Cost of Staying ![[images/018-Dana-Akins-Adeyemi-episode-art.jpg]] Part of [[Pixels & Priorities]] (listed in [[Pixels & Priorities - Audio Episodes 015-031]]). Previous: [[017 When Everything Is Priority One]]. Next: [[019 Burnout, Belonging, and Better Work]] (Dana Akins-Adeyemi part 2). - Show: Pixels & Priorities, hosted by Metsy Rose and J Schuh (RSS author field) - Episode: 018, published 2026-07-28 (RSS pubDate Tue 05:00 -0500); guest Dana "DeltaDana" Akins-Adeyemi, part 1 of 2 - Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/xnczksgs4m8nsw9n/PP_018_Dana_Part_1_Editeda9tik.mp3 - Podbean page: https://pixelsandpriorities.podbean.com/e/018-burnout-after-layoffs-the-cost-of-staying/ - Length: 26:06 (1,566.4 s measured from the mp3; matches the RSS `itunes:duration` of 1566 s). - RSS description: "What happens when you survive a layoff but inherit the work, fear, and emotional fallout left behind? Dana “DeltaDana” Akins-Adeyemi joins us to explore burnout during organizational change, including survivor syndrome, AI-driven job anxiety, the hidden cognitive load carried by marginalized and neurodivergent professionals, and the strain of supporting coworkers while protecting your own health. This candid conversation connects automation and restructuring to the pressures product, design, and technology teams are feeling now." - Artwork: the feed's episode image (guest card reading "Dana “DeltaDana” Akins-Adeyemi - DeltaDana | Human-Centered Systems & AI Strategy"), saved as `images/018-Dana-Akins-Adeyemi-episode-art.jpg`. - Transcript: faster-whisper (medium, int8, CPU) on the mp3 with VAD on, beam size 5 (about 3.8 minutes of transcription). That pass skipped or garbled three stretches (0:00-0:13, 9:20-9:37 and 14:15-15:16), which were re-transcribed in 21 short chunks with VAD off, for about 3,900 words in total. The 15:00 line was still clipped in Whisper ("less than point ... of engineers"); the feed's publisher transcript confirms "less than .5%". The publisher transcript (Podbean VTT, `PP_018_Dana_Part_1_Edited6bgaz.vtt`, about 4,000 words) was used for the outline timestamps and to check names and wording. All quotes come from the Whisper transcript (case and stray-character fixes only). Speakers are not diarized; attribution follows content and the speakers addressing each other by name (Metsy: the show open, the Gallup figure, being the sole developer left, Fallout 4, "just being a woman," the closing thoughts; J: welcoming his old friend Dana, survivor syndrome, losing your work friend, owning a business, staying connected, stretching himself too thin, the wrap-up; Dana: her career, burnout cycles, Digital and Polaroid, consultants rehired, Black women in engineering, neurodivergence, trauma, the margins, heartbreak during layoffs, one foot out). Where a line is uncertain it says "likely." Correct spellings are **Metsy Rose**, **J Schuh** and **Dana Akins-Adeyemi** (Whisper heard "Metzi," "Menci," "Betsy," "Jay Shu," "Adayemi" and "Delta Data Designs"). ## Hosts - **Metsy Rose** - co-host; product manager and strategist (show open). Says layoffs have been a reality her entire career. Once had her entire team laid off and was left as the sole developer, managing about 400 finance applications, until a doctor told her she would not be able to survive it. Plays Fallout 4. Says the extra pressures Dana describes are an aspect she personally has not had to deal with "outside of just being a woman." Describes herself and the others on the call as mid-career and in management. - **J Schuh** - co-host; design strategist, educator, and creative mind (show open). Has known Dana "forever" and says they don't always agree but come away considering other points of view. Researched burnout with Metsy and found the term survivor syndrome. Says (likely J) he is an empath whose brain "naturally watches people's patterns." Says he owned his own business for a long time before going into enterprise and corporate work, has both stayed through layoffs and been caught in a big layoff for financial reasons, and tries to stay connected with colleagues from every job. ## Guest - **Dana "DeltaDana" Akins-Adeyemi** - design, innovation and systems strategist and founder of DeltaDana (deltadana.com), who "focuses on helping individuals and organizations navigate change, build resilience, and rethink how work actually works for people" (show intro); the episode art labels her "DeltaDana | Human-Centered Systems & AI Strategy." In the episode she says she has over 25 years in industry, design and engineering; graduated in mechanical engineering, worked in corporate America about three years, then went to grad school specializing in design for manufacturing and studied under world-renowned leaders in that field. She returned to corporate work, married and had kids, then switched careers over work-life balance: she started the Attleboro engineering and product design program (a career and tech program in Massachusetts) and taught middle school for about five years, which she calls the toughest job she has had and where she "kind of burned out." She later did postgraduate work and a master's in industrial design at RISD (Rhode Island School of Design) and taught there. She has worked for Johnson & Johnson, IBM, Digital Equipment Corporation (where she started as a mechanical engineer as a recession hit) and Polaroid (design engineer in the mid-1990s), among others. She teaches at the University of North Texas and RISD and has run her own company, DeltaDana Designs, for over 20 years, now working as a consultant. She says that when she started in engineering, Black women were under 0.5% of engineers, and that a doctor's warning similar to Metsy's is part of why she does what she does now. - Web sources: the show's guest page (https://pixelsandpriorities.ghost.io/dana-deltadana-akins-adeyemi/) describes her as "a design, innovation, and systems strategist, consultant, educator, and founder of DeltaDana Designs" with more than 25 years across engineering, industrial design, human-centered design, education, consulting and systems thinking, and says she has taught at the University of North Texas and Rhode Island School of Design. UNT's Department of Design adjunct faculty list includes her (https://cvad.unt.edu/design/d-adjunct-faculty.html). Her LinkedIn profile is listed as "Dana Akins-Adeyemi, MSME" (https://linkedin.com/in/danaa). Part 2 is episode 019 Burnout, Belonging, and Better Work. ## Outline (timestamps are mm:ss) - **0:00 Show open.** Metsy Rose introduces herself and J Schuh and welcomes Dana Akins-Adeyemi, design, innovation and systems strategist and founder of DeltaDana. - **0:59 Old friends who disagree.** J says he and Dana have known each other forever and don't always see eye to eye, which helps them remember others don't think the same way. Today's topic is burnout; first he asks for her history. - **2:07 Dana's path.** Mechanical engineering, three years in corporate America, grad school in design for manufacturing ("design for assembly, design for manufacturing, design for humans"), more corporate work, then marriage and kids and a career switch over work-life balance. - **3:27 Teaching and burnout.** She started the Attleboro engineering and product design program in Massachusetts and taught middle school for about five years, "kind of burned out," then went to RISD for a master's in industrial design and taught there. - **4:06 Corporate and consulting.** She moved between corporate engineering and design roles (Johnson & Johnson, IBM, Digital Equipment Corporation, which was later absorbed into HP) and teaches at UNT and RISD. DeltaDana Designs, started over 20 years ago, was a "filler" between jobs; now she consults through it full time. - **5:11 Burnout by the numbers.** J hands to Metsy, whom Dana is just getting to know. Metsy says articles going back years show a growing number of people dealing with burnout; she cites Gallup's 76% of employees experiencing burnout sometimes, and expects AI to increase it. She asks Dana about a period of burnout. - **6:14 Burnout is cyclical.** Dana says the long view shows ups and downs: AI now, automation and manufacturing going overseas in the late '80s. As a new mechanical engineer at Digital during a recession, people were laid off and the few left doubled or tripled up, working late hours. - **7:16 The Polaroid ramp and crash.** In the mid-1990s at Polaroid, robotics manufacturing was sent to Mexico, the organization was redesigned and her team worked about 80 hours a week on a product meant to save the company; it didn't do well, "so then you got the crash." - **8:13 AI repeats the pattern.** Now AI is coming in rather than manufacturing leaving; people lose jobs because companies think AI can replace them, and those left overwork, which hits high performers hardest and can lead to breakdown. - **8:49 Survivor syndrome.** J says he and Metsy found the term in their burnout research. Metsy describes it as stress specific to the people left behind; layoffs have been a constant in her career and the news suggests a growing wave. - **9:37 The sole developer.** Metsy's whole team was laid off, leaving her as the sole developer with about 400 finance applications; a doctor told her she would not survive it, but she braced herself to keep things going. The "sole survivor" term amuses her as a Fallout 4 player. Being left behind is a different burnout stress from job searching, and both groups were often already stressed before the layoff. - **10:53 Reading the signs.** J (likely) says as an empath he notices rising stress patterns before rumors arrive, and wonders about timing (which quarter, before financials) and new CEOs bringing their own people. It creates "nebulous" anxiety while you still do your job, wonder if you're next, and know the laid-off people's work will come to you. - **12:54 Back as consultants.** Dana recalls people laid off on a Friday returning as consultants the next Monday. She predicts something similar with the AI "boom": industry thinks AI is the answer, cuts too deep, then rehires or brings people back as consultants, because you need humans. - **13:49 More than physical.** Burnout has mental and emotional components too; during layoffs morale becomes an issue and that anxiety adds to burnout. She jokes Metsy should have won Survivor's million dollars. - **14:38 The needle hasn't moved.** A doctor's warning like Metsy's happened to Dana too and is part of why she does her work. When she started, under 0.5% of engineers were Black women; 25-plus years later it is the same, which she blames on work culture, not interest or capacity. Being a minority in a profession adds pressure beyond workload. - **15:50 Neurodivergent load.** People who are neurodivergent must translate between the status quo and how they think, extra cognitive load that can affect health, emotions and how much workload they can absorb. - **16:17 Losing your work friend.** J says there is some post-traumatic stress on both sides: even expected layoffs hit hard, and staying may mean losing the best work friend you vented to in the trenches, leaving double the work and no one to go to lunch with. - **17:40 Trauma versus PTSD.** Dana distinguishes trauma from post-traumatic stress, which usually involves a threat, such as "am I next?" She urges care for people on the margins, who can be targeted more in instability and are likely going through more. Hearing from laid-off friends how hard the job search is adds to the fear of those who stay. - **19:17 Pressures magnify.** Metsy says individual and societal pressures on specific groups exist even in healthy workplaces and magnify in difficult ones, with anticipation about the impact on family. She thanks Dana for an aspect she hasn't faced beyond being a woman. - **20:19 Layoffs reveal people.** Dana says she has had her heart broken during layoffs by someone she thought was a friend; desperation can make people territorial and bring out the worst, though sometimes the best. - **20:52 Off the island.** J, who owned a business before corporate work, sees colleagues as individuals rather than parts of an organization. Some treat the laid-off like voted-off Survivor contestants; he stays connected, since you can be on top of the world one moment and in the deepest valley the next, and tries to support and find opportunities for people in the valleys. - **22:40 Mask on yourself first.** He has burned out stretching himself too thin caring for others and learned he must take care of himself; someone compares it to airplane oxygen masks. - **23:11 One foot out.** Dana adds that former coworkers' job hunts make those who stay wonder if they should have one foot out and one foot in, watching the outside in case they're next. Even if you are laid off, "your job is finding a job." - **24:28 Next time: community.** J says part 2 will cover community and advice for both those who stay and those suddenly outside. - **25:02 You are not alone.** Metsy: burnout is pervasive across product, design and tech; early-career people feel invisible overload and mid-career managers feel compression from many directions; this community is here to help each other. - **25:51 Outro.** ## Standout quotes (verbatim from the Whisper transcript) - 6:14 "One of the things that makes this a challenging question is that it's cyclical." (Dana) - 7:03 "The few people who are left have to double up or triple up their jobs." (Dana) - 7:45 "at one point, I think we were working probably 80 hours a week." (Dana, on Polaroid) - 8:25 "People have been unfortunately losing their jobs because companies think AI can replace what they're doing." (Dana) - 9:08 "It's a whole aspect specific to the people left behind after these huge impacts." (Metsy, on survivor syndrome) - 9:52 "I even had a doctor tell me, you are not going to be able to survive this." (Metsy) - 11:03 "I'm an empath, I pick up on data, so I will pick up on shifting emotions." (likely J) - 12:17 "And it creates this nebulous kind of anxiety." (likely J) - 13:00 "people got laid off on Friday and they returned as consultants the next Monday" (Dana) - 13:28 "industry thinks AI is the answer." (Dana) - 13:43 "I do think that's going to happen because you need humans in some aspect." (Dana) - 15:02 "guess what, less than .5% of engineers are black women, so the needle has not" [moved] (Dana) - 15:16 "I think this is the work culture." (Dana) - 15:52 "They think differently than others and they have to translate from the status quo to the way they think that's additional cognitive load" (Dana, on neurodivergent people) - 16:45 "But if you stay, maybe one of your best work friends is now gone." (J) - 17:46 "Post-traumatic stress is a little different, but I think there's a little trauma there." (Dana) - 18:24 "they can end up being targeted more when there's instability." (Dana, on people on the margins) - 18:46 "Most likely, the people who are on the outer margins are going through more." (Dana) - 20:18 "I have to say, I have had my heart broken during layoffs" (Dana) - 20:38 "it can sometimes bring out the worst in people." (Dana) - 21:56 "Because I realize for me, anyways, that relationship is beyond just the company." (J) - 22:52 "if I don't take care of myself, then I'm no good to anyone." (J) - 23:39 "Maybe I need to have one foot out and onefoot in." (Dana, voicing those who stay; Whisper's "onefoot" kept) - 24:10 "even if you do get laid off, your job is finding a job" (Dana) - 25:08 "I just hope that this reminds you that you are not alone" (Metsy) - 25:35 "Like the feeling of compression from the pressure is coming from so many different directions" (Metsy) ## Books mentioned - No books are named in this episode. ## Things mentioned - People: Dana Akins-Adeyemi's unnamed design-for-manufacturing mentors; Metsy's unnamed doctor. - Organizations: Gallup (burnout research), Digital Equipment Corporation, HP, Polaroid, IBM, Johnson & Johnson, Rhode Island School of Design (RISD), University of North Texas, the Attleboro engineering and product design program (Massachusetts), DeltaDana Designs. - Media: the video game Fallout 4 (its "Sole Survivor" protagonist), the TV show Survivor (voted off the island, the million-dollar prize). - Ideas: burnout as cyclical (1980s automation and offshoring, 1990s restructuring, AI now); survivor syndrome; inherited workload after layoffs; layoff-rumor anxiety; laid-off staff returning as consultants; AI over-cutting and rehiring; burnout as mental, emotional and physical; morale; underrepresentation of Black women in engineering; extra cognitive load for neurodivergent people; trauma versus post-traumatic stress; people on the margins targeted in instability; losing your work confidant; layoffs bringing out the worst (or best) in people; staying connected after layoffs; oxygen mask first; one foot out, one foot in; invisible overload (early career) and compression (mid-career). - Callbacks: J and Metsy's own burnout research; episode 017's burnout theme continues; part 2 (019) promises community and advice. ## Good work, productivity and career ideas - **Expect the cycle.** Restructuring waves recur (automation, offshoring, AI); knowing that can help you plan rather than panic (6:14-8:49). - **Name survivor stress.** Being left behind after layoffs is its own kind of burnout, with extra work and lost colleagues; recognize it instead of just bracing (8:49-10:53). - **Listen to health warnings.** Both Metsy and Dana describe doctors warning them about unsustainable loads; treat that as a stop sign (9:37, 14:38). - **Plan for inherited work.** After layoffs the work rarely goes away; clarify with leadership what will stop, not just who absorbs it (10:53-12:54). - **See the whole load.** Burnout is mental and emotional as well as physical; morale and anxiety count (13:49-14:38). - **Look out for the margins.** Marginalized and neurodivergent colleagues may carry more cognitive load and risk in instability; leaders and peers can check in deliberately (14:38-19:17). - **Keep your network after layoffs.** Stay in touch with laid-off colleagues as people, not ex-employees; support and refer them when you can (20:52-22:40). - **Put your own mask on first.** Supporting others is good, but not at the cost of your own health (22:40-23:11). - **Keep one eye outside.** Watching the market is reasonable when layoffs loom; if laid off, treat the search as your job (23:11-24:28). ## Claims check | Claim | Check | |---|---| | Gallup found 76% of employees experience burnout at least sometimes; "that's two-thirds of the workforce" (5:39) | Gallup's 2020 burnout report said 76% of employees experience burnout at least sometimes (28% very often or always); its 2018 study put the figure at about two-thirds (67%). Metsy's two numbers come from different Gallup studies; 76% is closer to three-quarters. | | Less than 0.5% of engineers are Black women, unchanged in 25-plus years (14:55) | Directionally right (very low and slow to change) but lower than published figures: NSF-based estimates put Black women at about 0.7% of engineering industry employees (2015), and Black women earned about 1.2% of U.S. engineering bachelor's degrees in 2024 (ASEE, via SWE). | | Digital Equipment Corporation "was absorbed probably 20 years ago into HP" (4:28) | Roughly right: Compaq bought Digital in 1998 and HP merged with Compaq in 2002. | | Polaroid sent robotics manufacturing to Mexico in the mid-1990s (7:29) | Dana's personal account; not independently checked. | | Survivor syndrome affects people left behind after layoffs (8:53) | A recognized idea in management research, often called layoff survivor syndrome or "survivor sickness" (popularized by David Noer's 1993 book *Healing the Wounds*): reduced morale, trust and commitment and higher stress among remaining staff. The book is context only, not named in the episode. | | "Sole Survivor" in Fallout 4 (10:15) | Correct: the player character in Fallout 4 is called the Sole Survivor. | | Post-traumatic stress usually involves a threat (17:52) | Consistent with clinical definitions: a PTSD diagnosis requires exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury or sexual violence. Dana's broader "trauma" use is informal. | | Survivor's prize is a million dollars (14:31) | Correct; the CBS show's winner traditionally receives $1 million. | | Episode length | RSS 26:06 (1566 s); measured mp3 26:06 (1,566.4 s). | ## Added context - Audio-only RSS episode (not on the YouTube channel). Continues the burnout run begun in [[017 When Everything Is Priority One]]; Dana returns in 019 Burnout, Belonging, and Better Work (listed in [[Pixels & Priorities - Audio Episodes 015-031]]).